Fight against insurance

"Tapas" (tapas)
06/03/2020 at 10:27 • Filed to: None

My insurance is low balling me in offering a settlement for my totaled E39 M5.
They’re using these very cheap comparables, that really got me suspicious :

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Does anyone have access to carfax? I’m wondering if they have an accident history.

Of course, none of these cars are a valuable color or interior spec like mine and (Le Mans Blue / Caramel full leather) and have aftermarket wheels.

My insurance is also claiming that upgrades that are older than a year don’t count.

If you have any advice on dealing with that, it will be much appreciated.

DISCUSSION (37)

camarov6rs > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 10:39

In regards to the upgrades, I would ask them the value they assigned and the depreciation they assumed as well. Usually it’s not as simple as 1 year out and bam you’re done. Typically they assign a value and a depreciation factor per mile. So if you bought $4000 in wheels 10000 miles ago they aren’t worth $4000 anymore.

Tapas > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 10:44

I see what you’re saying. Upgrades were added a while ago.

Upgrades were

OEM Headlights, tail lights, steering wheel and gauge cluster to 2003 spec

Dinan exhaust, strut brace, short shift and tune

Bav speaker upgrades.

My stance is that the upgrades add value to the car in the used car market. And if other cars don’t have similar upgrades, they can’t be considered 100% comparable. Especially when they are so significant. What do you think?

haveacarortwoorthree2 > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 10:44

Comparables, comparables, comparables (even for the wheels) . Even if it hard. You can go back a couple of years if you need to - any little bit helps. When my 66 Mustang was wrecked, the other guy’s insurer tried lowballing me even though I just asked them to give me what I paid for it at auction (which was the agreed-upon value I had insured it via Haggerty) . They ended up paying me 40% more than what I paid because I spent a day gathering comparables. Yes, I got an excellent deal on the car originally!

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 10:46

I don’t have first hand experience but helped my friend negotiate hard when they lowballed him after an accident for a total loss.

Run Carfax and Autocheck. If it has a clean record it helps greatly

Check NADA, KBB and Edmunds true value- Yes all 3

Search Nationwide for cars similar to yours and see the price range- private party and dealer. The closer in spec the better.

See if there are listings on Bring a Trailer. Check old listings to see what they sold for. Your car is definitely worthy of that site.

If you’re doing this over email,explain everything in detail with attachments/screenshots. Imagine you’re writing an assignment on the topic “Here’s why my car is worth more”. Can’t speak to the upgrades though, his car was 100% stock.

Read up on “The Art of the Deal”...ok just kidding.

Tapas > haveacarortwoorthree2
06/03/2020 at 10:49

I’m happy to hear about your success.

My insurance company is far more aggressive and stubborn . After submitting my comparables in my car’s spec and mods , they said they stand by their original low ball value.

In fact, they’ve gone out of their way to find the cheapest M5s and insist on including a source lik e VMR Canada to intentionally suppress the settlement value.

http://www.vmrcanada.com/used-car/values/2000-bmw-m5.html

Tapas > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
06/03/2020 at 10:55

Thanks for the tips.

I’ve done most of those things. I haven’t provided KBB, Edmunds, etc valuations because they don’t reflect what E39 M5s sell for today.

Tripper > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 11:12

I’m no help here but I have a question if you don’t mind. Did you declare a “value” when you insured it?

I never have before but I asked if I could and did with the 1502 because I thought “Joe Shmoinsurance isn’t gonna know how tiddies this car is, I want it insured for $ xx,xxx”.

PartyPooper2012 > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 11:18

In my experience, if you send them what you consider comparable car ads, they may reconsider.

I don’t know what the price difference is between what you had and what they are looking at - color and interior, but miles and condition matter

Sad to be in possession of this knowledge.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 11:26

I would go back and say the upgrades are non-wear items.

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 11:43

Contrary to popular belief, you are not in good hands with Allstate.

PlaysWellWithNOthers > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 12:05

From my o wn experience I know it helps when you’ re not in a time crunch. They do want to close that claim at some point and they usually assume you have to get the settlement fast in order to be able to buy a new car. If you do not need the money for a few weeks the po s ition will eventually flip where they want to close, but you refuse to agree to their offers.

That and comparables. Any comparable they send you, write up in detail how and why they are different and use enthusiast forum posts to underline how your vehicle has certain fea tures/options/color combos that are rare/sought after/better . The more detail information, the better.

I agree with KingT on the BaT suggestion as well.

Be polite and courteous to the people you talk to. They are just doing their job and most pe ople treat them like shit. If you stand out as a firm but friendly and pleasant- to- deal- with client, they may be more willing to help you within their (limited) means.

It took me three weeks to settle my total loss claim with lots of e-mails back and forth and dismantling in detail the comparables they sent me. T hings went my way in a hurry when I told them I’d be happy to continue discussing this after I return from my Germany trip over the Holidays and that I won’t be available for the next two weeks until after New Years .

They ended up letting me keep the vehicle and the check they sent was almost $25 00 more than the re pair, plus I got to keep the car with a clean title. The total value of the check plus the salvage value of the vehicle exceeded the value as well.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
06/03/2020 at 12:19

Does the fact that the site that these vehicles are listed for sale on considers them to be substantially below market value mean anything?

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
06/03/2020 at 12:30

I don’t think so. I’ve been talking to Tapas behind the scenes on this and he has an overwhelming amount of evidence to support his values.

DasWauto > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 12:34

Did you have your upgrades added or included in your policy? If not it may be a difficult point to argue. I specifically had the wheels on both my cars added to the policy and will be doing the same for the Ohlins once I get around to installing them on the 128i because that was expensive .

As others have mentioned, comparables are everything, as well as being firm but courteous and patient.

My commiserations. I don’t have a directly similar experience but it did take me several months to get paid out fairly by the insurance company handling claims when I got a tank full of diesel instead of the premium it should’ve been. The issue in my case was that their offer was conditional on them being absolved of any responsibility for any future repairs that might arise as a result of having the wrong fuel in the car; t hey only offered to pay what I had paid out of pocket thus far so if my fuel pump decided to crap out I’d be on the hook. Admittedly, I did leave emails unanswered for a few weeks a couple of times out of frustration so the process could’ve been quicker. I ended up getting the Subaru dealer to send me quotes for potential repairs ranging from the fuel pumps (regular and high-pressure because direct injection) all the way up to full engine replacement ($10K plus, lol) and passed those on to the insurance company saying they’d be held liable if I incurred those costs unless their offer improved. Ultimately they offered triple what my cost had been and I signed their waiver.

I know you don’t have the luxury of time because you are effectively without a car (is your term in a rental limited?) but my patience and diligence definitely paid off there.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
06/03/2020 at 13:07

I meant that those ads explicitly state that those vehicles are not reflective of the actual market value of a typical M5 of the same year, let alone one with desirable options in above average condition

Tapas > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
06/03/2020 at 13:16

Good point!

Tapas > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
06/03/2020 at 13:21

And I can’t thank you enough for the support.

All of that evidence and my comparables was completely ignored and no justification was provided. So I’m asking why they’re not considering my comparables, when they are a better match.

Tapas > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
06/03/2020 at 13:21

I’m bringing that up as well.

Tapas > DasWauto
06/03/2020 at 13:23

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I’m not sure if my upgrades are. But I’ve found cars with the same up grades and they sell for a higher value because of them.

My rental has already been taken away. Accoding to them, providing offer means case is closed and no more rental.

I’m going to buy a car because I need one. But I don’t need their settlement to buy another car.

Mid Engine > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
06/03/2020 at 13:48

I was hoping you were providing guidance, you know your shit

Mid Engine > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja:
06/03/2020 at 13:51

I’ve had good experiences with Allstate, the only pain in the ass in dealing with them is haggling over diminished value. I won the argument twice.

WiscoProud > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 13:54

Go look up some M5s on BaT and send it to them. Theyre trying to justify as low of a price as possible, and you need to justify as high of a price as possible.

Tapas > Tripper
06/03/2020 at 13:55

Yeah, I don’t have a agreed value policy. Hind sight is 20-20.

Tapas > PartyPooper2012
06/03/2020 at 13:56

I did send them comparables but they stood by their original offer. They provided no reaso n as to why my comparables were not considered and gave no response to me pointing out how their cars aren’t my spec.

We are about $10k apart in value.

PartyPooper2012 > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 14:25

yeah... fuck all that. have a friendly attorney get in touch with them. It won’t cost attorney anything but a phone call or a letter but will show you aren’t just scraping craiglist to get more money

Tripper > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 14:46

I wonder if the policy is any different or anymore expensive. It was very informal. When I asked t he guy was like, “ what would you list it for?” I told him and he said, “ok”. On the policy it says the amount somewhere but nothing else.

Tapas > Tripper
06/03/2020 at 15:31

It is more expensive.

I would highly encourage you to talk to your insurance guy and make sure its all in writing.

Even better, see if you can get an insurance through H agerty. They’ll insure your car for exactly the amount you want it to be insured for. They are also cheaper than mainstream insurance. This shouldn’t be a problem for you - it must be your second car and not be used daily for work.

DasWauto > Tapas
06/03/2020 at 16:45

It’s good to hear you are in a position not to have to wait for the settlement. Hold strong against them to get compensated reasonably.

Tapas > DasWauto
06/04/2020 at 09:52

Thank you.

I’m lucky enough to be in that position. But it is messed up that if I didn’t have enough savings, I’d have to keep paying for a rental I can’t afford to get a fair compensation.

Your insurance is not on your side.

DasWauto > Tapas
06/04/2020 at 11:18

Agreed.

I’ve dealt with insurance compensation three times now and none were a good experience. The other 2 were relatively simple damage repairs (rear window that got smashed and a new front bumper after tackling a trash panda) but both took longer to get sorted than they should have.

For the rear window I ordered and picked up the new glass from the dealer myself with the goal of expediting the process as it was my only car at the time. Annoyingly, instead of waiting for quote approvals and shipping to the glass shop I ended up out of pocket for 2 months getting run through multiple claims reps who each had to open new files because they couldn’t find the original(s). I guess that’s what I get for fronting the bill. I changed insurance providers after that nonsense.

For the raccoon run-in the quote was approved quickly enough but to get the adjuster to come out and appraise the damage in the first place took a week and a call from my dad who has significantly more business with the same insurance company. My email went unanswered for a few days and just didn’t seem like a priority.

As you can guess, I am not fond of dealing with insurance. They sell themselves as being on your side but as a business they are clearly out there to pay out as little as possible. This is understandable but it has to be possible to strike a better balance of paying out claims fairly, treating customers well and not coming off as a bunch scumbags.

Tapas > DasWauto
06/04/2020 at 12:05

Thanks for sharing your experience. I agree with you.

I’m really not enjoying this fight to get a fair settlement.

Stef Schrader > PartyPooper2012
06/06/2020 at 16:57

This was going to be my next idea. I’ve only had to deal with issues on the medical side, but you may need to look into legal help with this if they’re not even willing to look at comparables.

PartyPooper2012 > Stef Schrader
06/08/2020 at 06:09

Kinja says you replied to me but probably meant to reply to OP. Nice to hear from you tho. Hope things are looking up for you

Stef Schrader > PartyPooper2012
06/08/2020 at 11:20

Nah, I just popped in to back your suggestion up.

PartyPooper2012 > Stef Schrader
06/08/2020 at 12:33

ah! nice to have a backing of a professional

brianbrannon > Tapas
06/22/2020 at 23:17

I had to have a Used car manager put a value and specs of my truck in a letter. The insurance had stopped taking my calls so I had to have the injury lawyer forward the letter

Tapas > brianbrannon
06/22/2020 at 23:31

Wow, that’s just insane!